Journals of the Senate
54 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2005, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 38th Parliament
Issue 40
Thursday, February 24, 2005
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Day, De Bané, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, *Cordy, Day, De Bané, *Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gill, *Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Kinsella, *Kirby, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
WRITTEN DECLARATION OF ROYAL ASSENT
At 1:34 p.m. the Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that the following communication had been received:
RIDEAU HALL
February 24, 2005
Mr. Speaker:
I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Louis LeBel, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of the Governor General, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 24th day of February, 2005, at 11:02 a.m.
Yours sincerely,
Curtis Barlow
For the Secretary to the Governor General
The Honourable
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa
Schedule
Bills Assented To
Thursday, February 24, 2005
An Act to amend the Department of Canadian Heritage Act and the Parks Canada Agency Act and to make related amendments to other Acts (Bill C-7, Chapter 2, 2005)
An Act to implement the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment and the Protocol to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment on Matters Specific to Aircraft Equipment (Bill C-4, Chapter 3, 2005)
An Act to change the name of the electoral district of Kitchener—Wilmot—Wellesley—Woolwich (Bill C-302, Chapter 4, 2005)
An Act to change the name of the electoral district of Battle River (Bill C-304, Chapter 5, 2005)
An Act to change the boundaries of the Acadie—Bathurst and Miramichi electoral districts (Bill C-36, Chapter 6, 2005)
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some honourable senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following documents:
(1) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Air Travellers Security Charge Act;
(2) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Income Tax Act;
(3) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Excise Tax Act;
(4) ``The Budget Speech'';
(5) ``The Budget in Brief'';
(6) ``The Budget Plan 2005''.
—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-404
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Cook, for the Honourable Senator Kirby, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, presented its seventh report (budget—study on mental health).
(The report is printed as appendix "A'')
The Honourable Senator Cook moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Furey, Chair of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration presented its fourth report (Senate Estimates 2005-2006).
(The report is printed as appendix "B'' )
The Honourable Senator Furey moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Kenny, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, presented its seventh report (budget—study on the need for a National Security policy).
(The report is printed as appendix "C'')
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Phalen, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Oliver tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union respecting its participation at the 111th Assembly and Related Meetings of the IPU, held in Geneva, Switzerland, from September 28 to October 1, 2004.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-405.
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Harb presented petitions:
Of Residents of Canada concerning the treatment of Autism.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill C-39, An Act to amend the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act and to enact An Act respecting the provision of funding for diagnostic and medical equipment.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton, for the Honourable Senator Keon, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 3 and 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:
That in accordance with section 20.1 of the Parliament of Canada Act, chapter P-1 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1985, the Senate approve the appointment of Jean T. Fournier, of Ottawa, Ontario, as Senate Ethics Officer for a term of seven years.
A Point of Order was raised with respect to the acceptability of the motion.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
I have listened, and I believe I understand the point of difference between Senator Cools' point of order and Senator Austin's response. It falls to me as the presiding officer to make a decision.
The point of difference is essentially over the language used in the resolution that the Senate approve the appointment of Jean T. Fournier and whether this is an attempt to do something that will, as is anticipated by the motion and the comments on the point of order, be done following any decision by the Senate as to whether it approves the appointment. Accordingly, I take this to be the issue, and on this issue, my reading of the motion is not that the Senate is attempting to make the appointment or to do something that the government will do by Order-in- Council, but rather, as is indicated by Senator Austin, that the Senate approve the appointment. I do not believe that to be in any way out of order.
As to the question of whether or not an element of the Parliament of Canada Act is in effect and in place, this is a matter which I do not believe falls in my jurisdiction. If it did, then on any matter that came up, a point of order could be raised seeking to prove the fact that an act had been passed and proclaimed. That is a question of law, and a question of law clearly under our rules is not decided by the Speaker. The Speaker decides points of order on procedure and on matters to do with our rules and practices.
Accordingly, it is my ruling that it is in order to proceed with the debate on this motion.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., be referred to a Committee of the Whole now.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Cochrane, Cools, Forrestall, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Tkachuk—6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Atkins, Austin, Banks, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Corbin, Day, De Bané, Down, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Kenny, Kinsella, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Milne, Murray, Pearson, Pépin, Poulin, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Sibbeston, Stollery, Stratton, Trenholme Counsell—43
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The question was put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., be referred to a Committee of the Whole now.
The motion was adopted on division.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
The Senate was accordingly adjourned during pleasure and put into a Committee of the Whole on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C.: that, in accordance with section 20.1 of the Parliament of Canada Act, chapter P-1 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1985, the Senate approve the appointment of Jean T. Fournier of Ottawa, Ontario, as Senate Ethics Officer for a term of seven years, the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., in the Chair.
—In the Committee—
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:
That Jean T. Fournier be escorted to a seat in the Senate Chamber.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Debate.
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:
That the motion be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered: That the Committee rise, and that the Chair report that they have concluded their deliberations.
The sitting of the Senate resumed.
The Chair of the Committee reported that it had adopted the following motion and had concluded its deliberations:
That, in accordance with section 20.1 of the Parliament of Canada Act, chapter P-1 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1985, the Senate approve the appointment of Jean T. Fournier of Ottawa, Ontario, as Senate Ethics Officer for a term of seven years.
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C. moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that the report of the Committee of the Whole be adopted now.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Standing Senate Committees on Human Rights, National Finance, National Security and Defence, Official Languages, as well as the Special Senate Committee on the Anti-terrorism Act, be empowered, in accordance with rule 95(3), to sit on Monday March 7, 2005, even though the Senate may then be adjourned for a period exceeding one week.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Ordered, That Order No. 1 under Reports of Committees, be brought forward.
Consideration of the sixth report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence (budget—Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs—Study on the services and benefits provided to veterans) presented in the Senate on February 23, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Forrestall, for the Honourable Senator Meighen, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That all remaining items on the Order Paper and Notice Paper be postponed until the next sitting.
With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Monday, March 7, 2005 at 8 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 5:43 p.m. the Senate was continued until Monday, March 7, 2005 at 8 p.m.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The name of the Honourable Senator Milne substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Cordy (February 23).
Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples
The name of the Honourable Senator St. Germain substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Stratton (February 24).
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The name of the Honourable Senator Stollery substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Banks (February 24).